A growing number of motorcoach operators are asking coach builders to bring back 35-foot models that have many of the attributes of larger coaches, and some bus builders are beginning to take a serious look at the possibility of developing them.
ABC Companies Inc., which imports Van Hools, and Setra of North America are assessing the practicability of adapting European-built coaches for use in the United States and Canada.
"We're very serious about doing it and we should have a decision very soon," said ABC President Ron Cornell.
ABC and Van Hool are looking at the possibility of converting a 35-foot Van Hool model built in Belgium and importing it to the United States. Van Hool exported a 35-foot model - the T-800/35 -- to the U.S. in the 1990s.
Patrick Scully, president of Setra, said his company also is evaluating whether it's feasible to adapt a 35-foot coach it builds at its production facility in Ulm, Germany. "It's something we are looking at right now but we have not made any decisions yet," he said.
The two executives said the models under consideration are not cutaways but true, over-the-road coaches that could be used for full-service tour and charter operations.

A serious' need
The evaluations, they said, were prompted by requests from numerous coach operators from around the country who say they have a serious need for smaller coaches to help fill growing demand from existing customers and to attract new customers.
Other coach manufacturers say they, too, are hearing from operators who are looking for a 35-foot model that can match full-size coaches for comfort and durability, but aren't likely to be offering one any time soon.
"Right now we're in a wait-and-see mode," said Bill Fay, director of coach marketing and sales at Blue Bird Corp. "We would have to make sure the market was going to be there for the long term and the revenues could justify the up-front money."
Noel Patterson, regional sales manager at Prevost Car Inc., said it's very unlikely his company would add a 35-foot coach to its line, mainly because a true over-the-road coach would cost more than what most carriers would be willing to pay. Plus, he thinks the market may be too small to justify the millions of dollars that would have to be invested to build a new model. "I doubt you are going to see one developed by the manufacturers with the true quality that folks would expect," he said.
Motor Coach Industries, which produced the last 35-foot motorcoach for the U.S. market - the F3500 - until last year, also is watching developments closely and could be interested if demand grows substantially, reports Gene Hall, MCI's new vice president of private-sector coach sales.
"If the demand is there, we could gear back up either with the F or some variation of that," he said. "That's our thinking right now."

F3500 is dropped
MCI quit making the F3500 coach after the company closed its plant in Mexico where it and the full-size G4500 were being built. Talk of moving production of the F3500 to Canada failed to materialize.
Hall said the G-series coach was designed primarily for Greyhound Lines, MCI's largest customer, so the company decided to build only the G4500 at its Winnipeg plant and put the F3500 on hold. "Obviously the G was a very high priority for us so we made it our priority to get it back up and running," he said. "The F is still there, it's just not a priority."
ABC currently offers a 35-foot cutaway bus, the ABC M1000, but it is being marketed for trips of a radius of about 800 miles, not cross country trips, according to Dane Cornell, executive vice president. "We did not market it as a true motorcoach, although some of our customers are using it that way, so it is capable" he said. "It was more for shorter tour and charter work rather than going from New York to Los Angeles."
A number of operators say the industry is ripe for smaller coaches that not only act and feel like the 45-foot coaches that make up most of their fleets, but offer a lower purchase price and reduced operation and maintenance expenses.
"I've been begging for one," said Dave Brown, president of Holiday Tours in Randleman, N.C., stressing that a smaller coach would allow operators to serve a number of new markets that many of them are losing because buses in their current fleets are too large.
He said he would like to see at least 20 percent of his fleet of 46 coaches made up of 35-foot models.

Smaller charter groups
In the past few years, according to Brown, charter and tour groups have gotten smaller and many college sports teams that have small numbers of players, such as volleyball and swimming teams, are now looking to travel by coach.
"But some of the groups don't feel like they should be chartering a 45-foot coach and when we tell them we don't have a smaller one, they go some place else and rent two or three vans for their trip," said Brown.
Robert Hopwood, general manager of Premier Coach in Colchester, Vt., agreed, saying he has 10 F3500 models in his fleet and they've helped him obtain work he might otherwise have missed.
"The lower purchase price and operating costs let us put the 35-foot coach out in the market at a little bit less expensive rate and that's been a primary reason why we have been able to attract some contractual relationships with customers," he noted.
Hopwood said he would like to see more of the smaller type coaches on the market and would add some to his own fleet if they were available. "I've been lobbying the manufacturers for more of them," he said.
Joan Libby, owner of Cavalier Coaches in Boston, which has three F3500 coaches in its 22-coach fleet, holds that the shrinking size of tour groups - many of them are between 20 and 25 people - underscores the need for smaller coaches. "I think the manufacturers are really missing the boat here," she contends.
She says the 35-foot coaches in her fleet have been in great demand and customers ask for them specifically. "We're sold out of them most of the time and they are getting very hard to get," she says.

The typical 35-footer
A typical 35-foot coach seats 36 passengers and weighs in at around 27,000 pounds, versus 35,000 to 40,000 pounds for a 45-foot coach. When you eliminate the tag axle you get a steep reduction in overall weight.
Of course, less weight means the engine size is smaller and the fuel savings is larger. A 285-horsepower power plant will move a 35-foot coach nicely versus up to 400 horsepower demanded by some 45-foot coach drivers.
The smaller coaches also are much more maneuverable, both because of the shorter wheelbase and the absence of a tag axle to drag around corners. A turning radius of 70 feet or thereabouts could be expected with a 35-foot coach, versus 80 to 90 feet for a 45-foot model. Drivers typically drive over fewer curbs and hit fewer objects with the rear end of 35-foot coaches.
Meantime, the manufacturers say they are struggling with trying to figure out how they can bring a true coach worthy 35-footer to market at a price operators can afford and just how big the market for such a coach might be.

Price point is key
Most manufacturers and operators appear to agree that the small coaches would have to be in the $200,000 to $225,000 range to be acceptable in the market. MCI's F3500 had a base price of around $225,000 when it was introduced three years ago.
"The ultimate objective is the price point; what customers will want to pay for something between a cutaway and a full-size coach," said Scully.
Fay said a concern builders often have with a new model is that the operators start asking for added features -- larger air conditioners, better seats, larger engines, better suspensions and larger transmissions among them -- that take the price to a point where even those requesting the upgrades don't want to pay. "Then they suddenly say they're going to go out and buy a coach that is three-to-five years old instead," he said.
While the financial issue is critical, manufacturers say the size of the potential market for a 35-foot coach is just as important.
"And the dilemma is, you hear of the interest but how many can you sell because the investment is rather significant to bring these products to market," noted Fay. "I don't know that I would call it a fad but it's probably just a 30- to 50-bus market right now."

A small market?
Hall agreed, saying there probably will always be a market for a 35-foot coach but it likely will remain relatively small. "But it is a very price sensitive market and the key is building something that will accommodate the needs of the operators and yet be affordable to build," he added.
Patterson said manufacturers would have a difficult time getting any return on their investment if they were to produce a new, smaller coach. "The whole coach would have to be designed as a 35-foot coach and this going to require millions, tens of millions of dollars to develop," he said. "There are simply not enough people out there who really would commit to buying that to justify that kind of investment."
He worried, too, that the price of building a small coach that could meet the expectations of the carriers could run as high as $320,000, well above what most of them would be able to afford. "That would make the market even smaller because nobody is going to want to pay that much," he added. "And operating at the tariff levels they are operating on today, well, that's just not going to happen."
Dane Cornell agreed that the market consistency must be there because of the huge upfront cost involved in the engineering, designing and production costs. "It can't be a one-shot deal," he said. "What happened a little bit in the past is that you bring a vehicle in and you fill the need in about a year, selling 30 to 35 vehicles. Then the next year you only sell a trickle."
He said if ABC decides to import a 35-foot Van Hool, the company goal would be to deliver a vehicle at a reasonable price that could build the needed consistency into the market. "Where we feel we might be able to do that is if we can bring the vehicle in with a price point that will attract more buyers than just the handful that now are very interested," he said. "That could give us market consistency."